Skip to main content

View Post [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 7, 2009 10:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Bruce and Vince

I decided to listen to the TDIH from 1995 this morning. Hell if Tell is listening to '73 shows in his closet, why can't I try out a '95 for the first time. Actually I picked it because it was the day I became a father.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1995-04-07.sbd.larson.tetzeli.fix-35148.35364.reflac.flac16

One: Jack Straw ; Peggy-O ; Little Red Rooster ; Loose Lucy ; When I Paint My Masterpiece ; Visions Of Johanna ; The Promised Land

Two: Eyes Of The World > Saint Of Circumstance ; Samba In The Rain ; Unbroken Chain ; Corrina > Drums > Space > Easy Answers > Days Between > Not Fade Away

Encore: U.S. Blues

The show was okay, well better than I expected. Highlights for me were Visions of Johanna and Eyes, both were very good. Mercifully my wife called right as Samba was starting and she managed to occupy my ears for all but the last minute of the song. She loves me, she really loves me.

However what struck me the most was Vince's playing on Promised Land and then Eyes>Saint. He wasn't making annoying synthy sounds like he did during Jack Straw, rather he was making piano sounds and frankly I thought they sounded damn good. Much better than that Casio noise that Brent played at the beginning of his tenure. I found myself wondering why he did not stick with this sound which would have been more widely accepted amongst the fans of the group only to realize that there was no reason to make piano sounds for the first year and half or so he was in the band. With Bruce on a real piano it would seem that the only place for Vince to go was synthy. So my question is, do you think having started out with Bruce on piano significantly influenced Vince's sound with the band? I am becoming more and more convinced that Vince was a talented keyboard player (untrained ear here), but he just had a sound that was not very appealing to the fanbase and combined with being overshadowed by Bruce in the beginning, he never had a shot.

Reply [edit]

Poster: lobster12 Date: Apr 7, 2009 12:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bruce and Vince

Based on your 1995 rec I looked at the playlist and right off the bat I see a red flag that this may not be a good night for Jerry because there is 25 minutes of drums. As for Vince I'm sure it was somewhat difficult to not step on toes when you have 2 keyboardists. For me personally, I don't rate Welnick until summer 92. I think having been in the band close to 2 years and Hornsby being gone is a fair time frame to start judging him on his ability. Much like 1992-1995, I want to like Welnick, I just don't unfortunately. For me, he should have been much further along than he was. Listen to solos on Sugaree, Don't Ease me In and most horrifically the re-emergence of Alabama getaway. Not to mention the repetitive theme to Scarlet and terrapin that he chose to play. Very weak to say the least. I like the fact that in the end he was probably the only one who actually wanted to be on stage and I love the fact that he pushed the band to dust off tunes like HCS and pleaded to get them to play St Stephen. Unfortunately, I just didn't care for his decisions on how to interpret the tunes.

Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 7, 2009 1:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bruce and Vince

I suspect that your criticisms are fair. I really haven't listened to very much from '91-95 so I really can't address it. I went to shows in '92 and '94 and by '94 it was clear that the biggest problem with the band was not with the keyboards. Probably just caught some bad nights.

I was simply wondering if Vince would have fit in better if he was not initially working around Bruce and the interesting interview that S&R posted suggested that he definitely felt boxed in both while working with Bruce and even a bit after Bruce left. Maybe it affected him or maybe he just wasn't the right guy. I guess we will never know.

I don't think Jerry was having a rough night for the 4-7-95 show. No lyric flubs to speak of and the playing seems okay. Try the Eyes and let me know what you think.

Reply [edit]

Poster: lobster12 Date: Apr 7, 2009 1:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bruce and Vince

Tough question really. Vince was quoted as saying he was so terrified at his first show that he couldn't play. I think he needed Hornsby at least for that fall 90 run. If you get a chance take a listen to his solo in this Big railroad Blues. Take away the actual sound Vince produces, which was left to Cutler but judge him on his playing. He swiping the keys and sounds pretty good and has some passion. I guess maybe that's my gripe. I wish the guy played like his hair was on fire. I always felt that Mydland and Hornsby could save a show from being bad. I never got that sense from Vince.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd92-03-08.sbd.fink.14083.sbeok.shnf

As for a good Vince show, I like his work on 12-31-91

Reply [edit]

Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Apr 7, 2009 7:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bruce and Vince

I saw Vince's first two shows, which were both without Hornsby. First show was okay -- not great, not bad. But the second show smoked. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if Hornsby had turned them down.

Reply [edit]

Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Apr 7, 2009 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bruce and Vince

Vince was not allowed to play piano while Bruce was around. Them's were the rules. He claimed that he didn't have much control over the output sounds -- and that it was Bralove's fault.

Generally speaking, Vince sounded much better in Hornsby-free shows.

Check out this interesting interview..

http://www.digitalinterviews.com/digitalinterviews/views/welnick.shtml

DI: Bruce Hornsby was there as a “buffer” for a while.

VW: That was the deal. The job description was “Bruce will play the piano until we work in the new guy. You will play synthesizer -- not the Hammond organ, but synthesizer.” I wish it would have been the Hammond, too. It was either space, or they wanted to phase out that sound and replace it with other stuff.

DI: So when you and Bruce played together, you had split responsibilities?

VW: I had the bogus Hammond, the one that sounded not like a Hammond. [laughs] Whenever I went to the organ, that’s what I played, and the synthesizer. I learned all those songs on the piano at home. Now I get to the stage, and, with the exception of a very few rehearsals, we were up and running on the fall tour. “I must not be a piano player,” that’s what’s going through my head. “Be anything but a piano player now.” It was challenging.

DI: When Bruce went on his way, were you able to bring those other sounds in?

VW: Oh, yeah, and Bob Bralove was supplying my midi sounds, like he did with Brent. He fires them in from afar. He sends in, not the songs, but the sounds.

DI: A lot of electronics were utilized within the whole framework of the Dead?

VW: There was a "wall" of sound effects. Bob Bralove would keep adding more effects. I have pedals to bring them up. If I had all the pedals on full, you could be hearing up to six different sounds blended together.

Reply [edit]

Poster: Single Malt Date: Apr 7, 2009 12:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bruce and Vince

Interesting interview. I really liked the part when Bob asked Vince if his insurance is all paid up- funny. Obviously a reference to the hot seat.

Thanks for the link.